Curse

w00t! · Mar 03, 2010, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urass

I just love the purist game Nazis... "Ya vot, you vill play my vay or you vill be nerfed"

Godwin's Law!

Tramp · Mar 03, 2010, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by iTzF3aR

The Test Krewe is not your enemy, they aren't some "e-bully", or group of elitist bunch of idiots as you claim them to be. Having said that, they try to make the game best for everyone and unfortunately from a rusty start, we have hardly yet to see that. ..... Players like you (ignorant, ......)

Ignorance is arguing against your own observations with wishful thinking as opposed to the actual evidence. You praise the Test Krewe as some wonderful bunch of people helping the game. Then in the next sentence you admit you have not seen it yet. When you use emotions to project you seem to be blind to the actual evidence you see. Stick to the facts, and not emotions, and the fact is the Test Krewe are failures and will cost Anet real life money. The people at Anet who listen to the recommendations of these fools are going to cost their employer money, even if it is just mine.

Lycan Nibbler put it correctly when he posted above that the expection was that SF would be nerfed and 600 moderately slowed down. Instead, SF was barely touched, is still 100% used as effectively in speedclearing with slight changes, and on the other hand, 600 got killed and lost 75% of its effectiveness. For the solo farmer who liked to have casual, productive use of their limited gaming time, 600 was a good option. That option was decimated while the "abusive" SF was left to rape and pillage once more.

The people who get hurt are the recreational farmers like me, recreational groups who liked to duo and trio, and the newbies who need runs through dungeons and cant get them anymore. The pro farmers just will shift over to SF and Obby Flesh and keep raping the game apparently. What a brilliant set of nerfs from Test Krewe and such a great business decision from the Wizards of Smart at Anet who listened to them.

Damn Rock Gin · Mar 03, 2010, 08:25 AM // 08:25

The butchering of the 600 Smite build has pretty much not only slowed the build itself, but my remaining time playing GW. I used 600 smite for Vanquishing, which I was hoping I would be able to finish. I have done everything else in the game, all expansions, played all classes, etc...
Most of my characters needed their EOTN ranks, which now is no longer worth the effort, they pretty much killed dungeon runs. I certainly won't be doing the dungeons over and over again just to try and max a title. I really enjoyed dungeon runs and the nice people that I have met while being run.
It's like they just slammed the door shut on us.

chessyang · Mar 03, 2010, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Well, in the interview @ PAX, when questioned about Shadow Form, Linsey Murdock states that they've been lingering on these nerfs because they were afraid of the reaction of farmers. She cites the precedent of Ursan: even if it's still playable and powerful, people don't want to use it anymore, since it's "nerfed".

oh good to know! have to check the PAX news. thanks for reminding me of this event.

and to the OP. game is still fun to me. i'm finding new ways to solo stuff. YES it's a bit slower and not making cash as fast but still having fun

Del · Mar 03, 2010, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tramp

Ignorance is arguing against your own observations with wishful thinking as opposed to the actual evidence. You praise the Test Krewe as some wonderful bunch of people helping the game. Then in the next sentence you admit you have not seen it yet. When you use emotions to project you seem to be blind to the actual evidence you see. Stick to the facts, and not emotions, and the fact is the Test Krewe are failures and will cost Anet real life money. The people at Anet who listen to the recommendations of these fools are going to cost their employer money, even if it is just mine.

Lycan Nibbler put it correctly when he posted above that the expection was that SF would be nerfed and 600 moderately slowed down. Instead, SF was barely touched, is still 100% used as effectively in speedclearing with slight changes, and on the other hand, 600 got killed and lost 75% of its effectiveness. For the solo farmer who liked to have casual, productive use of their limited gaming time, 600 was a good option. That option was decimated while the "abusive" SF was left to rape and pillage once more.

The people who get hurt are the recreational farmers like me, recreational groups who liked to duo and trio, and the newbies who need runs through dungeons and cant get them anymore. The pro farmers just will shift over to SF and Obby Flesh and keep raping the game apparently. What a brilliant set of nerfs from Test Krewe and such a great business decision from the Wizards of Smart at Anet who listened to them.

You say all this as if Anet uses the test krewe as anything else other than a pariah for their screwups. also, i don't see how people farming is raping the game. Let people do as they please, it's just a game. Stop acting like what you want is the only thing that's right and whine on the internet like a whiny little shit just because you don't like something. if you want to keep finding things to whine about gw, maybe you should just quit.

Shadow Feathers · Mar 03, 2010, 03:18 PM // 15:18

This thread hasn't been moved to the Campfire forum with the other QQ threads about farming / recent update, ect. ? Just how many ways can you all whine and complain about things ? I mean really.

Xsiriss · Mar 03, 2010, 03:28 PM // 15:28

I'll say it again,we need rewarding gameplay. Not areas of the game specifically designed away from it and skill balances directed away from it. The gameplay itself must be rewarding.GW always hasn't been that rewarding hence the birth of farming and the overkill it's gone to.

qvtkc · Mar 03, 2010, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by [DE]

I want prot bond back then.

"The energy loss can be divided among characters if multiple copies of protective bond are cast. For example, if two characters cast this spell at level 13 Protection Prayers, the first character to cast would lose two energy and the second would lose one energy every hit. "

Enjoy

Gill Halendt · Mar 03, 2010, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by chessyang

oh good to know! have to check the PAX news. thanks for reminding me of this event.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3ScVRiFm3A

"Shadow Form is allowing people to get in [...] It makes me nervous about nerfing it. We've let it go for a while because of that, altough it's becoming even more abused"

And then she mentions the "bigger project"... which I guess was the implementation of Dhuum in the UW. Well, "not necessarily easier but more conducive to group play rather than solo play" is not really what we've seen implemented, but, well...

So, again, blame abusers not playing anything else and making a tool for solo farming into an "abuse". It's this, the generalized abuse, that brought to the nerf in the end, not really "elitists"..

Orry · Mar 03, 2010, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Exactly how I feel.

It is not impossible. DDO allows all kinds of playstyle to exist with something called 'Difficulty Levels'. You can solo quite a lot of that game and get great loot on lower difficulty if you want to, but they promote group play by offering better rewards on higher difficulties which require you to be in a group.

Balancing both solo and multiplay is hardly difficult and entirely possible, if the game isnt being ran by a team of monkeys that is.

Last I checked you couldn't really farm per se in DDO, the only way to make money faster is speed clear, and they have attempted to nerf it.

Tramp · Mar 03, 2010, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

You say all this as if Anet uses the test krewe as anything else other than a pariah for their screwups. also, i don't see how people farming is raping the game. Let people do as they please, it's just a game.

No need for the haterade, you an I are in 100% agreement. Farming is not raping the game, but Anet apparently thinks it is. I also believe people should be able to play whatever style they want. I NEVER used SF and I was 100% totally opposed to an SF nerf because if other people want to use it, it does not affect me at all. This is just a game, and is supposed to be about fun. Nerfs do nothing but suck the fun out of the game. They sucked the fun out of monks and left the so called bad boys "raping" the game to keep on going. They are not using Test Krewe as a pariah because they will never admit they are a bunch of screw ups. You an I are 100% in agreement. The game should be fun and people should be able to play as they please. 600 was great for farming, dungeons that are worthless vs. the time needed to complete, socializing while playing since people can stand around and chat, vanquishing, etc. They swung the nerf bat at the juicy pinata they were aiming for (again... wrong in my opinion), missed and hit the tree instead, then seem to be patting themselves on the back for a job well done???? No, in my opinion, they are idiots and I am voting with my feet and my pocketbook with gw2. Battlefield 3 will be coming out about the same time as gw2, my character will be called Anet Can Kiss My Brass.

Orry · Mar 03, 2010, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tramp

No need for the haterade, you an I are in 100% agreement. Farming is not raping the game, but Anet apparently thinks it is. I also believe people should be able to play whatever style they want. I NEVER used SF and I was 100% totally opposed to an SF nerf because if other people want to use it, it does not affect me at all. This is just a game, and is supposed to be about fun. Nerfs do nothing but suck the fun out of the game. They sucked the fun out of monks and left the so called bad boys "raping" the game to keep on going. They are not using Test Krewe as a pariah because they will never admit they are a bunch of screw ups. You an I are 100% in agreement. The game should be fun and people should be able to play as they please. 600 was great for farming, dungeons that are worthless vs. the time needed to complete, socializing while playing since people can stand around and chat, vanquishing, etc. They swung the nerf bat at the juicy pinata they were aiming for (again... wrong in my opinion), missed and hit the tree instead, then seem to be patting themselves on the back for a job well done???? No, in my opinion, they are idiots and I am voting with my feet and my pocketbook with gw2. Battlefield 3 will be coming out about the same time as gw2, my character will be called Anet Can Kiss My Brass.

ANet has absolutely no problem with farming, they have problems with gimmicky speed clears. Again Speed Clear != Farming

The reward for farming is more drops quicker, and the reward for clearing is unique drops you can't get elsewhere. Once players can speed clear an area to get the end reward an excessive ammount more quickly than other methods it DOES affect other players because they are either forced into a play-style they don't like, or they can't get the reward.

Gill Halendt · Mar 03, 2010, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orry

it DOES affect other players because they are either forced into a play-style they don't like, or they can't get the reward.

Or it can take so much for them to get such a reward that it's become worthless in the meanwhile. Hello Elemental Sword.

Del · Mar 03, 2010, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tramp

No need for the haterade, you an I are in 100% agreement.

not exactly. i feel that nerfs or not, it's no big deal. just adapt. the majority of whiners on this forum simply lack the imagination to find something else.

Orry · Mar 03, 2010, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Or it can take so much for them to get such a reward that it's become worthless in the meanwhile. Hello Elemental Sword.

At which point it is no longer a reward.

Gill Halendt · Mar 03, 2010, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orry

At which point it is no longer a reward.

Yup.

So why should I choose between hurrying and farming like there's no tomorrow, or having my reward becoming worthless?

Hi-end items are there to reward EVERYONE, not just those who have got the time and the means to farm like hell and get them sooner.

Gun Pierson · Mar 03, 2010, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Yup.

So why should I choose between hurrying and farming like there's no tomorrow, or having my reward becoming worthless?

Hi-end items are there to reward EVERYONE, not just those who have got the time and the means to farm like hell and get them sooner.

There are just not enough hi end items (e.g. BDS) to reward everyone without the farmers because drop rates are so low that the non farmer player would never have a chance of getting a BDS. It becomes a problem when people who don't farm feel entitled to get said items to the point they can't stand farmers or hate them because they think the game should be played 'my way'. The irony is that farmers bring those items into the market and lower the price, which is a good thing as it brings those items in reach of the non farmer.

This is what Anet said about that: 'Advanced farmers are always going to earn more money than their more casual counterparts. There's nothing wrong with that. When farmers earn their money by finding valuable items and selling them to other players, they're making the game more enjoyable for everyone. They're facilitating trade'

I did around 100 runs to farm a BDS and it didn't drop yet. Do you have any idea how much a BDS would be worth without the farmers?

Oh btw, I watched that pax interview at the time, the thing you should worry about is why nerfing makes Linsey nervous. 4thvariety worded it excellent on the previous page, it's a neverending downcycle of a loss of players which is bad for an mmo.

Martin Alvito · Mar 03, 2010, 07:51 PM // 19:51

If you leave the game degenerate, you will lose players.

If you nerf popular farms, you will lose players.

I think Gun has made a good case recently for producing better data that tells ANet which course of action sheds fewer players. However, this does not constitute a proof that an anti-farming stance is inappropriate.

The whole point of the anti-farming stance was to fight bots. But ANet conceded that fight long ago. The question on the table is whether or not imba garbage like SF helps ANet sell more copies of GW2. I doubt that, but I'd be willing to listen to quality marketing data that says the reverse.

Orry · Mar 03, 2010, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

There are just not enough hi end items (e.g. BDS) to reward everyone without the farmers because drop rates are so low that the non farmer player would never have a chance of getting a BDS. It becomes a problem when people who don't farm feel entitled to get said items to the point they can't stand farmers or hate them because they think the game should be played 'my way'. The irony is that farmers bring those items into the market and lower the price, which is a good thing as it bring those items in reach of the non farmer.

This is what Anet said about that: 'Advanced farmers are always going to earn more money than their more casual counterparts. There's nothing wrong with that. When farmers earn their money by finding valuable items and selling them to other players, they're making the game more enjoyable for everyone. They're facilitating trade'

I did around 100 runs to farm a BDS and it didn't drop yet. Do you have any idea how much a BDS would be worth without the farmers?

Oh btw, I watched that pax interview at the time, the thing you should worry about is why nerfing makes Linsey nervous. 4thvariety worded it excellent on the previous page, it's a neverending downcycle of a loss of players which is bad for an mmo.

The BDS would be a reasonable price without farmers actually, because nobody would be running around with stacks of ectos. It's inflation, only the farmers can afford what the other farmers are selling. That being said there would be far fewer BDS's for sale, but people wouldn't be able to ask as much because people wouldn't HAVE as much. Disparity is worse for the economy than anything else.

chessyang · Mar 03, 2010, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3ScVRiFm3A.

Doh at work! can't hear it but thanks for posting the link!!!

after loading it up on the iphone it's good to know they do read the boards and who does what. also good to know real people with real lives work on this great game!